Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "Davd Paschal" paschald@XXXXXXX.net
Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:05 pm (PDT)
I never said any such thing. I never said they were all innocent
as you have said about Manson. Of course they were adults and
they are all being punished for the crimes they committed. Manson
also was guilty of a crime and he is being punished for the crime
as well. I have no more use for Tex Watson than I do for Charles
Manson. I have always said they all need to stay right where they are
with the
exception of LVH. They should all have been dead by now except for
a fluke that allowed them to live permanently at the expense of the people
of California.
Manson was involved in a criminal conspiracy to commit murder. He is
exactly where he is supposed to be and his treatment there has had more
review than probably any other inmate that is in the hands of the Dept. of
Corrections in the history of the state. His treatment has been too
good by my standards.
But, of course I don't believe he is innocent so I can see how you
believe that
his treatment is wholly unfair. And by the way since Eran is the only
support I have here
he and I strongly disagree regarding Atkins. He tells me what he thinks
and doesn't hold back and I do likewise. We still don't agree afterward
but such is the way things go. So I am not trying to talk down to you
and I am sorry if you saw it that way.
Again, I never said they were innocent, any of them. My point was that
Manson
was the leader and master of the group and of the murders.
dp
X wrote:
>
>
> Whatever man! Believe what you want just like all the others who are
> on BUGliosi's side. Are you possibly related to him or something? You
> seem to be taken in by his crap so much and it makes me wonder why.
> Like I said in a previous post, the killers were ADULTS but you make
> them sound like helpless little children who played the game "follow
> the leader" when in reality, the killings were THEIR idea! I have a
> biography of Sharon Tate on VHS and it even says right there that the
> girls planned the killings. Then however, it comes back after a
> commercial break and lays it all down at Charlie's feet again. Seems
> pretty damn convenient if you ask me! Anyway, it sounds like you're
> talking down to me and belittling my words which is not a fair thing
> to do. You talk about how supposedly for me, it's "anybody but Manson"
> but at the same time for YOU, it's all HIM and NOBODY else. How can
> you say 1 thing about ME when YOU are believing 1 side of the story
> yourself?
>
> X (aka Noel)
>
> --- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
>
>
> >
> > Maybe Pat was the mastermind! I am falling down laughing. Sorry, but
> > please it is insulting to state that Pat Krenwinkle was smarter than
> Manson.
> > She wouldn't have known shit about Helter Skelter unless Manson
> hadn't been
> > preaching it for weeks or months. Maybe Leslie van Houtoun was the
> driving
> > force! For you Noel, it is anybody but Manson. You simply have no facts
> > to support your theory that it was everybody *except* Manson that was
> > running
> > this thing.
> >
> > I can't say that I respect an opinion as out in left field as that. As
> > I am also
> > sure you are not going to think my opinion is worth the time of day
> > either.
> > Charlie got Charlie locked up and his rights ripped away.
> >
> > dp
(This thread the way I see it shows just how ignorant the haters can be when it comes to Charlie and his rights. Perhaps someday, David's rights will be ripped away from HIM and then he will see what Charlie goes through on a daily basis. He just has no idea about how rough things truly are. It's interesting to see how David tries to play the "nice guy" role when based on what I have seen from him so far, he's no better than the rest of the Trolls in that damn group. He just likes to pretend like CG and "White Rabbitt" do.)
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:54 am (PDT)
Aaron, I think ATWA is just a cynical excuse to justify the existance of the pro-Manson sites and legacy. I entered their websites (the older ones and the current one) and never found anything concerning real debates or discussion about the environment or how to save it (only a lip servicing general slogans written int he familiar pro-Manson jargon). Nearly everything there is dedicated to Manson and th "injustice" done to him, plus external links to well-known environmental groups (like Greenpeace and others, which I'm certain won't be happy to be thought as connected to ATWA in any way).
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "Aaron"
>
> in his defense I see his point. It's hard to think someone is really behind saving the earth when they are tearing up a state park with dunebuggies.
>
> It's almost the same when you see protesters screaming against oil usuage and things like that when they are screaming through a plastic megaphone.
>
> It's very possible that they were concerned about the enviornment, a lot of people were back then, do we hear much about it? No, so it's very easy to say one of that came out until the 70's. Could be. ATWA came about after the order of the rainbow which was in the 70's. Is it possible that it was a front to change public opinion on Charlie, or does he really care? It's hard to say. It's also very easy to bi*ch about it and point fingers, like he does, when he is locked away and can't do anything about it apart from spreading the word.
>
> but when the saying that the murders were done in the name of ATWA (which I have heard before) is a bit silly cause it makes no sense. Charlie didn't seem to have a problem riding around in expensive cars that used a lot of gas.
(Here is my reply.)
Re: The unexpected environmental thread in the group
Posted by: "X" atwa13x@XXXXX.com
Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:14 am (PDT)
I thought it was the desert that they were riding around in the dune buggies. Regarding Charlie not having a problem with riding around in what you consider expensive cars that used a lot of gas, perhaps it wasn't something he thought about at that time. I think he got more serious about the environment later on because he became more open to it and aware of all the problems that exist in our world. Certain individuals can bash ATWA all they want but in reality, it's an important concept and without clean air, trees, or fresh water, the animals as well as the rest of us will perish. When we're young, we take all of our natural resources for granted. It's only when we grow and realize the importance of environmental protection and preservation that we can truly understand what it would mean to do without all that we currently have at this moment.
X (aka Noel)
(Yet more ignorance from another Manson hater)
Re: The unexpected environmental thread in the group
Posted by: "jlm30260@XXX.net" jlm30260@XXX.net
Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:17 am (PDT)
I think CM started his ATWA thing to give his minions something to do after he was put in prison.
(Another reply from me.)
Re: The unexpected environmental thread in the group
Posted by: "X" atwa13x@XXXXX.com
Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:25 pm (PDT)
No, I disagree with you there. I believe he had a passion for the environment and wanted to project something positive.
X (aka Noel)
(Eran's lame and rather delayed reply to me. It's funny how it took him a whole day (Jul 15) to conjure up this stupid little gem in his crippled mind.)
Re: The unexpected environmental thread in the group
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:44 am (PDT)
Yeah, like the Aztecs, to shed blood on the earth so it'll flourish...
(On and on the ATWA bashing goes.)
Re: The unexpected environmental thread in the group
Posted by: "Aaron" bredlau3@XXXXXXX
Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:14 pm (PDT)
yeah but sadly, for earth's sake, to the general public, ATWA is coming from CHARLES MANSON, therefor it's crazy-evil and should be dismissed as insanity or fraud.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
>
> I agree and it's a shame that nobody is willing to commit to saving the planet. I think Charlie actually has taken some pretty good action for ATWA in spite of the fact he's locked up. Just by him spreading the word and getting the truth out there is enough to get the ball rolling in my opinion.
>
> X (aka Noel)
(I think it's really pathetic how they can bash ATWA like this! Perhaps if they got off their high horse and started doing good things for Mother Earth, they might actually see the benefits of the ATWA concept. Unfortunately, they just don't care and I doubt they ever will because they're so locked up in their minds. Charlie is actually more free behind those bars than Eran and the rest of the ignorant haters are in their own mental prisons.)
.
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:23 am (PDT)
Wondering who gave her that Belladona? Perhaps "Supersrar" Charlie?
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
>
> She was also on "Belladonna" and from what I understand, that's an extremely intense form of LSD. Based on what I have learned so far, that crap really blew her mind. She was baked a great deal of the time on this garbage as far as I know.
>
> X (aka Noel)
(Isn't it convenient how Eran tries to blame Charlie for the "Belladonna" haze that Susan Atkins put HER OWN self in? Sure, Charlie must have shoved the junk down her throat! LOL:) Eran is obviously so deluded he can't tell fact from fiction.)
.
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:25 am (PDT)
Really? He SAID he admired Hitler, all his reading material at Barker was booklets and magazines about Hitler, he referred his dune buggies to the Rommel "African Corps", so as hard as ou tryto twist it, Manson admired Hitler and his attidute towards blacks and Jews were (and are) racist.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
>
> I have to disagree about Charlie being a neo-Nazi. Yes, he was interested in Hitler but at the same time, a person should never be judged by what they read. For example, not all people who read the Bible are Christians. I have known plenty who are hypocrites.
>
> X (aka Noel)
(Naturally Eran would use the old Hitler angle just like his hero BUGliosi did before. I still stand by what I said before that NOBODY should be judged by what they read. For example, Eran could read a book about world peace but that doesn't necessarily make HIM a peaceful individual. Obviously, he knows NOTHING about peace as you can see from his posts. In my opinion, a book on toilets would be more fitting for his type to read LOL:) After all, everything he spews amounts to nothing but crap.)
Posted by: "WHITE RABBITT" whiterabbitt83@XXXXX.com
Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:38 am (PDT)
i wish i could say that it was not true, but i cant i was there in the haight in 66, i met manson at my commune 532 clayton when he came over to get acid in 67, i did leave san francisco when hard drugs came in in 68 and moved to la,i wish i could say i did not live at the log cabin with zappa but i cant, i wish i could say i never was at spahn but i cant, i wish i could say that sandra good and squeaky did not track me down in tennessee at a commune called the farm run by stephen gaskin when they were in sacramento and said on the phone to me and stepen that they wanted me to come to sacramento and for me to leave that day, if i loved charlie, when stephen told them no that they were not letting me leave, sanda and squeaky threatend stepen who told them to not call back,
and 5 days later squeaky met presedent ford, thats all facts, ever since sandra good and squeaky have been spining a new lie about me, so i cant pretend it never happened, it did
--- On Tue, 7/14/09, eran.gafni <eran.gafni@XXXXX. com> wrote:
From: eran.gafni <eran.gafni@XXXXX. com>
Subject: [charlesmanson_ and_family] Re: The Spiral Staircase House
To: charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 9:11 AM
Well, he himslef just said here yesterday that there wasn't any Manson Family so ther wasn't any White Rabbit among the non-Family so if he claims otherwise he will contradict himself twice...
I know that many people say he is a fraud and also he is not mentioned in any book of the Family, besides "The Family" of Ed Sanders where he also doesn't emntioned by his nickname or real name but been referred to as a "guy who came to the Heights in 1968 from the Mid West." He told Sanders about supposedly snuff films the Family took in 1969 and 1970 (i.e before and even after the big arrests). In other forums, and even here, many people said he's a fraud.
I tried to befreinded him, but it seems his loyalty to Manson still blinds his mind.
(Well, most everyone knows what a fraud "White Rabbitt" is and most everything he spews is based on his own twisted fantasy of being a Manson associate. He's a wannabe plain and simple. Surprisingly enough, Eran is nearly 100% correct about "White Rabbitt" with the minor exception of the last statement regarding his loyalty to Manson blinding his mind. There is certainly NOTHING wrong with being loyal to Charlie but "White Rabbitt" unfortunately takes it to an unrealistic level by claiming that he was part of the so-called "Family" when in fact he was NOT. That delusion is truly all in HIS OWN mind.)
.
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "WHITE RABBITT" whiterabbitt83@XXXXX.com
Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:23 pm (PDT)
for one thing they are saying they never called me in tennessee, asking to to come to sacramento, but the fact is 3 days after the event with ford the fbi came to the farm to tell me that they found the farms phone number on a call they made to me and asked stepen whaT THEY SAID TO ME, AND DURNING THE TRIAL SQUEAKY AND SANDY WANTED ME TO GO TO berkeley and dupelakate the tate murders
and sandra said that she will send 3 girls with me and after its done tell the cops that u did the tate murders and then charlie would be free, then after a month tell them u did not do the tate murders and join us in death valley, i said ill call u when i get to berkeley, i never did, they held that against me
--- On Tue, 7/14/09, X <atwa13x@XXXXX. com> wrote:
From: X <atwa13x@XXXXX. com>
Subject: [charlesmanson_ and_family] Re: The Spiral Staircase House
To: charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 8:17 PM
So, what is this lie that Squeaky and Sandy are spinning about you?
X (aka Noel)
(This is the twisted and most likely bogus reply that "White Rabbitt" gave to me when I questioned him about this alleged lie that Sandy and Squeaky were spinning about him. The only thing I see spinning is his big empty head! I personally doubt that Sandy and Squeaky EVER lied about him. I also don't believe the other things that he claimed about them. I truly believe that all of these statements from "White Rabbitt" are total crap and yet another example of the manic delusions that he has floating around in his burned-out, acid flooded brain. Of course, this is just my view on the situation but I firmly believe that only Sandy and Squeaky truly know what happened.)
.
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:05 am (PDT)
WHat disturbs me about him most is that he is the only person of the Family (I intentioanlly don't include Sandy and Squeaky - they are merely Charlie's puppets) who still don't take responsibility to anything that he done - not the rapes, not the car stealings and of course not the killings (either he merely asked them to be carried out or ordered them it doesn't matter - for his followers it was the same and one). He and his current puppets still blame others, and his famlous credo that he is only a reflection of other is the ABSOLUTE shedding of any resoponsibility whatsoever to his deeds or sayings. This thing is disturbing and shows he didn't change and still remained a whining con.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "Aaron"
>
> no Charlie does put on a show in interviews. I have almost every interview and you can tell. He gives what he gets. You can see it with different interviewers, and also it probably depends on when the interview was done and how medicated he was at the time. Charlie is very smart yes. But he tends to avoid answers directly and double speaks other answers. He speaks in riddles and parables, which is a sign of wit and intelligance. (pardon my spelling mistakes)
>
> He sometimes, it seems, to gladly play the part of Evil, probably because that's what he knows people expect of him. You can see it in the Geraldo interview. Geradlo goes for blood right off the bat, so that's what Charlie gives. Geradlo wants insanity so Charlie delivers. Ron Reagen on the other hand gets a better interview where Charlie is far more lucid and polite. It's like this in Charles Manson Superstar as well. The interviewer doesn't attack him, so Charlie doesn't attack back. It's far more relaxed. Tom Synder is back and forth. Charlie really hedges and babbles when it comes to certain questions, especially the question about tying up the LaBiancas. He beats around the bush and in the end says the reason he doesn't give the answer is that he is an outlaw, this is after telling a few stories that have nothing to do with anything regarding the question.
>
> It's a show for the most part, but one I think he is happy to be in, and so is the public because they get to see Crazy Charlie in the context they want to see him in. Stark raving mad, but sometimes in handcuffs so it's ok to watch.
>
> --- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
> >
> > You say that Charlie puts on a show for the interviews but I have to disagree with that. In my opinion, he's about as real as you can get and I believe that he is genuine in his statements to the interviewers. Regarding his intelligence, I think that anyone who is able to surpass their teachers is pretty damn smart. Charlie was able to do that as stated in the "Manson" film.
> >
> > X (aka Noel)
(This is yet another thread where more Charlie bashing is taking place. Eran goes on in his usual repulsive fashion about what disturbs HIM but what disturbs ME is just how ignorant he truly is. Aaron actually made some sense here which is a good thing but I have seen other examples of him siding with Eran before. So, this decent post from Aaron is a real treat.)
.
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:15 am (PDT)
The Manson puppets will use only the language Manson uses, so for them everyone who don't agree with them is either a relative of the great Satan (aka Vincent Bugliosi) or someone who wants to be famous, happily ignoring the fact that the only person who actually wanted to be famous (and gained it) was Charlie.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "Aaron"
>
> I read plenty on the Manson case and I don't follow him.
(Here is a perfect example of what I was just talking about. Eran and Aaron side with each other like good butt buddies once again.)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:50 am (PDT)
It is only becuase this superstar despise society and laws and thinks his rules and "laws" are the only validate one. His puppets won't admit it, of course, but they all think the same.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
>
> I personally think that Charlie would snap at ANY officer regardless of race. I can understand why after all he has been through with them.
>
> X (aka Noel)
>
>
> --- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "jlm30260@"
> >
> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9ZFKRtwCLog
> > Thanks Jim. I found this on you tube. Listen to the way CM snaps at the black officer. It is a very interesting interview. He calls Squeaky his only girlfriend, and talks in a more rational way than usual. It may be b/c the interviewer is a women.
(This thread here is a real piece of foul work! As you can see, Eran is starting to escalate his attacks on me due to his obvious hatred towards Charlie as well as his own personal insecurities. I still can't understand why Eran is so jealous and intimidated by Charlie. I suppose I never will either because Eran refuses to come clean about his deeply rooted issues regarding his negative feelings towards Charlie. His denial will be his own undoing someday.)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:09 am (PDT)
No, you are right about that,this is the reason Linda was taken was because Mary Brunner was arrsted that afternoon and Linda was the only one with a valid driving liscence. She drove to the Tate house, but upon returning, Tex drove (she held the helm while he changed his cloths). I guess Charlie was concerned that the "operation" might be botched if the killers would be caught by traffic patrols because of forged driving licenses.
On the next night, Charlie drove the car. I don't know why the aformentioned fear of been caught left him, I can only guess he thought HE would never been cuaght or that he tried to drive according to the law (as you can recall, the famous told story of him wanting to kill a man in a white sports car happened while bioth cars waited side by side for the lights to change; I guess the traffic wasn't heavy on that intersection, otherwise Charlie wouldn't dare go out and kill someone while everyone's watching). Maybe Linda was taken again just in case.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, Caty Bergman
>
>
>
> Ok, now we're confused Eran. As the story goes, the reason Linda Kasabian was included in both killing parties was because she was the only one with a Driver's License, and our understanding was that she did all the driving. We may be wrong, but that's nothing new,
>
> Caty and Dave
(In this lame post, Eran is actually challenging the Troll who tried to stifle me after I decided to leave the group. I'm really surprised they're not on the same side regarding this issue since they both seem to enjoy trampling on the rights of others.)
Well, that's all for today. I will be posting more as usual next weekend. By the way, I posted a brief update on the "
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