.
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:08 am (PDT)
Was TJ with the Family on July 25? I doubt it.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
>
> I heard that he was. TJ even mentioned some reference to it on the "Manson Family Reunion" Geraldo program.
>
> X (aka Noel)
(Eran just going against me again as usual. Same old crap, different day.)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:28 am (PDT)
It's just a proof that his wasn't led by anyone because no one dared looking after him to see what he's doing, because he was the only one free to stay or go as he pleased.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, lorriance waters
>
> but when charlie wanted to , he did leave the ranch , go off and do his own thing, there were many periods he did this, travelling with stephannie up big sur. leaving barker ranch one day and going into the desert by himself.
(More misguided garbage. Eran is clueless again as always. Charlie wasn't the only 1 who could come and go off the ranch as he pleased. Everyone there could do pretty much whatever they wanted to but unfortunately, Eran doesn't get it and never will.)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:31 am (PDT)
And you mught add that he is the ONLY person who's not willing to take responsibility to anything he done in those years, always blaming others.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "jlm30260@.. ."
>
> We totally agree about CM taking no blame for anything. It is also very sad that he is the only one who could shed light on everything, and never will.
> Peace,
> Jamie
(More misguided crap from the haters. These 2 deserve each other. Charlie has ALWAYS taken responsibility for HIS OWN actions but these 2 haters obviously think that Charlie is obligated to take the blame for the actions of others as well. Sad and pathetic if you ask me!)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:42 am (PDT)
In July 1969 Manson made huge effort to enlist all his acquaintances to the Helter Skelter scenario - i.e. to join the Family and fund its operations and go with them to the desert - he did it to Dennis Wilson, Terry Melcher, Greg Jakobson and Gary Hunman. All he got was a blunt refusal from all of them.
However, he knew Gary was about to move to Japan and heard he raised $20,000 to finance this trip (I don't think the heritage story is true) so he wanted that money (remember he was always short of money), and got pissed off when Gary refused not only to join him but to give him money (at least part of the 20Gs)so I think it's still the most accurate version of why Gary was murdered. Please remember Charlie threaten all of the above and all of them felt threatened and were afraid of Charlie.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, lorriance waters
>
> yes gary was a good friend to all the so called "family" and he was a good friend to bobby, iits tragic what happened to him.if it was a robbery , why target him, ? why not a stranger, why not do a creepy crawl of a wealthy persons home,/ they Had done plenty before? after the first day it was obvious he had no money , no inheritence? ??
(Eran (aka Mr. Know-It-All) once again spouts off garbage in the voice of BUGliosi without getting all his facts straight.)
.
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:48 am (PDT)
The drug story might ahve been sounded more reasonable if the killers hadn't left political bloody writings on the wall - which reasobale cop would believe this is a drug related killing when he finds out "Political Piggie" on the wall or "PIGs on the front door? Come on, he woul dhave said, this is politically motivated killing, which it was. The stabbing and the sliced ear of Gary ruled out the possibility that it was a "Black Panther" work since they: a) hardly, if ever, killed anyone; b) Real political killings are done with a simple shot in the head or in the chest, not stabbing and slashing (an exceptions are the Al Qaeda assassinations carried out by beheading).
The only grpups murdering by viciousely stabbing and slashing are cult-related groups, and Charlie's "Family" was indeed a cult.
(Gee, Eran sure does have some good knowledge of how murders are carried out. Even though nothing has been confirmed as of yet, this makes me wonder if Eran has ever been part of such activities. Just a theory.)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "WHITE RABBITT" whiterabbitt83@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:20 am (PDT)
i made a vow i cant repeat the name, just say it was a friend i knew in la
--- On Sun, 7/19/09, lorriance waters <hobowaters@yahoo. com.au> wrote:
From: lorriance waters
Subject: Re: [charlesmanson_ and_family] Re: The Spiral Staircase House
To: charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 6:06 AM
who told you rabbitt-
--- On Sat, 18/7/09, WHITE RABBITT
From: WHITE RABBITT
Subject: Re: [charlesmanson_ and_family] Re: The Spiral Staircase House
To: charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
Received: Saturday, 18 July, 2009, 7:48 AM
the only think i new about gary h was that he made a bad batch i had heard that first hand,
--- On Fri, 7/17/09, lorriance waters wrote:
From: lorriance waters
Subject: Re: [charlesmanson_ and_family] Re: The Spiral Staircase House
To: charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 4:40 PM
rabbitt did you know gary himen or bobby beausoleil
(Here's some ramblings from Manson associate wannabe "White Rabbitt" who is so intent on being part of Charlie's crowd that he will say most anything to feel important. He's not exactly a Manson hater but I'm going to include his crap here too because in my opinion, he spouts off about as much idiotic crap as the haters do.)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:43 am (PDT)
I don't think he must reveal the source, but after 40 years it seems strange people are afraid to open their mouth about Charlie - so maybe he wasn't that whitey clean person after all?
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "Mr. X"
>
> If you can't reveal the source then you should just keep quiet about it.
>
> jim davis
>
> --- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, Caty Bergman
> >
> >
> >
> > We have a secret source too, which says both of you are wrong.
> >
> > Now with that said, it's not as though anything we all say or do here will ultimately make any difference in this case, so we are willing to give WR the benefit of the doubt here. All opinions and information given here should be taken with a grain of salt of course, but that is no reason to make fun of someone who is willing to share information that they have. Discussing and debating is fine, but nothing is ever gained by making fun of them. Please respect another person's right to share only the information they can and treat them as you would want to be treated if the circumstances were reversed.
> >
> > Thank you for listening,
> >
> > Caty and Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >From: "jlm30260@"
> > >To: charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
> > >Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:26:22 AM
> > >Subject: [charlesmanson_ and_family] Re: The Spiral Staircase House
> > >
> > >
> > >LMAO!!! So do I Jim, he comes to me in my dreams and tells me things no one else could know. He makes me promise, in blood, never to reveal his name.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "Mr. X"
> > >>
> > >> W.R. I also have a secret source which I promised not to reveal that tells me what ever BS I want to say....:-)
> > >>
> > >> jim
(Here, Eran along with Caty and Dave defend "White Rabbitt" to the others who basically know he's full of crap. Too bad those defending that vile piece of crap can't see the truth.)
Re: OT: I didn't rejoin this group to get attacked!
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:06 am (PDT)
I know why you are so upset about Bugliosi and me: we pull the shred from Charlie and his fake ATWA cover-up, this pisses you off, and I'm glad it does. Lies can be told, but wil never be the truth.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, WHITE RABBITT
>
> shut the fu*k up eran
(It's rather amusing to see these 2 clowns going at it since they're both equally clueless. Of course, I have heard many times that individuals who are too much alike tend to butt heads all the time because they both feel they're right about everything. I personally think that's the case with these 2 creatures. Another thing I want to point out is the fact Eran is so extremely intimidated by the ATWA concept which is why he repeatedly spouts off his nonsense garbage against it every chance he gets. I suppose it's because he can't stand the fact that the man he hates is capable of being linked with such a positive concept. Eran like all the other haters prefer instead to go on believing the very worst about Charlie and anything positive about him just knocks them off their nice comfortable little pedestal. They can't stand to have any positive stuff about Charlie ruin the precious ignorant world they live in.)
Re: OT: I didn't rejoin this group to get attacked!
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:20 am (PDT)
Well, I see we have here a penny Psychologist. .. You never given any answer, so you have nothing to brag about.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
>
> Rabbit, please relax. It's Ok because he's going to think what he wants and I'm not planning on justifying myself to him anymore. He's NOT the whole group after all. I tried giving answers but if that's not good enough for him, that's HIS problem. I don't plan on making it MY problem because I feel I have been very clear on the subjects. He's obviously unhappy with himself and so he's pushing it all on me. This is the way I see it. Let us try and move on from here in a more positive direction because the negativity is getting us nowhere. I'm still waiting for a response from the moderators. Hopefully, they can restore order in here without anyone getting hurt in the process. Let them handle it from this point on.
>
> X (aka Noel)
(Naturally, Eran would criticize me when faced with the truth. It scares the hell out of him so he lashes out in his usual ignorant fashion to cover up his own insecurities and fears. Classic projection is all he knows. He has done it many times as I have clearly shown here.)
Re: The Spiral Staircase House
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:10 am (PDT)
Because lies never be sustained for long.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "Mr. X"
>
> I have noticed that evern the pro-manson websites only last a few months before their taken over by spam and abandoned by their creators.
>
>
> peace,
>
> Jim Davis
> Ozark Bioregion, USA
> Planet Gaia
>
>
> http://www.lulu. com/content/ paperback- book/historical- materialism/ 7346550
>
> --- On Sat, 7/18/09, cg
>
>
> From: cg
> Subject: Re: [charlesmanson_ and_family] Re: The Spiral Staircase House
> To: charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 10:04 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thing is tho- new people every day want to know what went on. for some reason Manson has been talked about for 40 plus years and probably will another 40 plus years.
> I might be wrong but I think we have the ONLY active Manson group on the net.
> We are neither for or against Manson and family. We can have supporters and non supporters.
> Jeff and I have fought long and hard for this group going thru many upheavels ,turmoil and down right nasty problems but like the phoenix we rise again and again.
> Yes alot of it is rehashing but still new people join and are fascinated that we still are talking ..
> When I started as moderator with Jeff he knew I knew jack sprat(LOL) about Manson only what I had read. He has put up with me 8 yrs.
> He and I are the original owners of the group never leaving .. we have added, subtracted moderators but the 2 Cheryls have been a moderator for years. and adding Aaron awhile back has been a godsend. and now we have Caty and Dave .. Whether he believes it or not-- Dave is a good guy
>
> I am glad to hear that after all these years you members are still interested in this.
(Nice little ignorant assessment by Eran as to why there are no other active Manson related groups out there. He should take a good look at HIMSELF and see the lies within instead of projecting it all onto others. Of course, CG had to chime in and brag about the fact HER stupid group is the only active 1 currently in existence. Well, of course it would be since there are so many fools on the web who actually believe in their own ignorance as well as all the media sensationalism. They need a forum like CG's group to display all their nastiness to anyone who will listen to them spout off meaningless garbage. So, this is the only reason I can see for that rotten group existing in the first place. From what I heard though, a few have woken up and abandoned CG's sorry excuse for a group due to all the drama that has taken place in there recently which I'm naturally getting wrongly blamed for. Bottom line, I doubt "charlesmanson_and_family" would even exist without the mean spirited, nasty, severly misguided Manson haters infecting it with all their disease. That group is THEIR trip and they have no other place to go. I doubt any decent group would tolerate their nonsense.)
Re: Al Springer
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:40 am (PDT)
The difference is that the TLB murderers weren't the typical serial killers: they didn't kill before and not after that - even in jail none of them was into fights or tried to kill anyone (Shorty was murdered by other members who didn't take part in the Hinman and TLB murders and so are the murders of fall 1969 incl. Zero's death and those in 1972).
A serial killer, like Son of Sam or the Zodiac or Geffry Dhamer and others kill several times and continue to do so until they are couaght (and even they don't kill EVERY day).
This, of course brings to mind what triggered them to kill, and the only connecting thread between them is one: Charlie Manson. Without his order/requests/ "good" advise etc. no one of the Family would have become a murderer.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, Caty Bergman
>
>
>
> Yes we figured that it was just your opinion, but your insight is still interesting nonetheless.
>
> Psychobabble can be interesting also as it gives us the chance to delve into the person's mind and thought processes and inner psyche (sp?). Anyway, we have to get it, because HS is in our opinion an important cornerstone of ANY collection of books dealing with serial killers. Of course a good case can be made that the Tate/ Labianca murders are not serial killings, but that is just a problem of semantics more than anything else. We believe that regardless of whether they were true serial killings or not, they still have many of the elements of what makes a series of killings, serial and so horendous in nature. The amount of time between each set of killings for one and the seeming pleasure in the killing as another, but the group dynamics involved adds an even more interesting aspect that is rare in serial killings which has probably helped to keep it in the publics conscious for so long... In our opinion.
>
> Caty and Dave
(More ignorance in it's highest form. Eran as usual remains fixed in his own twisted mind that the killers didn't have the murderous tendencies in them before they met Charlie. Personally, I think that's a load of crap! NOBODY can just go and commit murder without already having that tendency in them from the start. Eran's clueless rants continue to baffle me.)
Re: Al Springer.
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:51 am (PDT)
That means that the Manson puppets only can recite his lies and ignore the facts.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "Aaron"
>
> on thing I found very interesting about this is the interview happened right after Kitty's interview and before Danny's and before Susan started to blab and Ronnie turned her in. But here you have a near stranger saying that Charlie called the group "The Family." It was before the media got ahold of it. So, what does that mean?
>
> "I am a mechanical man
> A mechanical man
> And I do the best I can
> Because I have my family"
(Eran's pathetic comment should actually be reversed around back onto HIM since this is how HE is regarding BUGliosi. HE has shown HIMSELF to be a BUGliosi puppet by reciting lies and ignoring facts. Still, he continues on with his classic projection by pushing all his misguided crap onto the Manson supporters just so he can avoid seeing the truth within himself. So very sad.)
Re: Let's not rehash! (Was: OT: I didn't rejoin this group to get at
Posted by: "eran.gafni" eran.gafni@XXXXX.com
Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:51 am (PDT)
It's like people trying to quit from smoking and alcohol. Many succeeded living Manson, others, including Tex and even Susan returned because they were already been tansfromed by Charlie and couldn't find their place in the "regular" world anymore at that stage, so only in the mid-70s, when they have found a greater power than his (i.e. Christianity) and after been away from him and his brainwashing, did they managed to switch their mind to another phase. Even Paul Watkins who managed to stand Manson aggressive presuations in the desert, returned to the Family for awhile during the trials so it shows you how Manson's influence was very strong among some people.
--- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "jlm30260@.. ."
>
> Now you have hit on something that has always bothered me. Tex went to live his girlfriend twice, for months at a time. People left the group all of the time. It seems to me that, from what I have read, that those people did have a choice whether to stay or to go. Just saying....
> Jamie
>
>
> --- In charlesmanson_ and_family@ yahoogroups. com, "X"
> >
> > Let's not rehash this again please. If you think back to all the communes that existed in the 60's, ALL of them had a leader or founder. Why single Charlie's group out? I still don't feel he acted in the extreme capacity of "leader" as BUGliosi claimed. I don't want to repeat myself all over again though because no matter what I say, you will contradict it as a show of your own importance. If I say "Black" you will say "White" so it's senseless to even go on with this discussion. It's over and done as far as I'm concerned. If we keep going back and forth regarding Charlie's so-called leadership like children with the "yes he is", "no he's not", "yes he is", "no he's not"........ we're going to be stuck in this stupid cycle going nowhere. I'm only talking to you now because I felt perhaps I should give things a second chance and try to start off fresh. Obviously, that's a mistake. I don't like being constantly contradicted as if I know nothing! It makes me feel VERY angry and disrespected! This might not mean a whole lot to you if anything but that's fine because I'm only blowing off steam. I think perhaps it might be best if I stuck with my original plan and stayed out of your mess. That's all eran.
> >
> > X (aka Noel)
(This thread was continued on from the original message I posted about not rejoining the group to get attacked. Eran as usual spews his nasty, misguided views and classic projection once again. Eran has succeeded living BUGliosi but of course he refuses to accept this inside himself. He would rather reverse it all back onto the Manson supporters by making it seem as if WE see CHARLIE in that type of reality. I'm surprised that Jamie actually said something favorable in her reply to my original message since later on she turned so nasty towards me.)
Re: Let's not rehash! (Was: OT: I didn't rejoin this group to get at
Posted by: "jlm30260@att.net" jlm30260@XXX.net
Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:58 am (PDT)
I have no doubt that Manson held a fascination or some sort of hold on them. However, that does erase their culpability, IMO. I think a lot of these family members were just lazy and wanted someone to do everything for them, even think for them and tell them that they were perfect people, who could do no wrong. He only told people what they wanted to hear. The independent people who actually worked, such as Juan Flynn, did not give Manson complete control over themselves. It was a choice.
Jamie
(Wow! More actual wisdom from Jamie! Unfortunately, she sided with the haters later on down the road and lost all sense of true reality. At least this is what I observed in her shortly after she became a complete Manson hater.)
Well, that's all until next weekend. Enjoy reading this latest update:)
